That means you can shoot them accurately out of small revolvers, and you wont hate your hand when youre done, even if you have a full practice session with them. Well obviously for target shooting, as it was originally designed. A medium-sized, Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here. I just like the nice round holes :biglaugh: 200 LSWC using H&G #68 mold is a super reliable projectile in all of my 45 ACP handguns. Sometimes bringing them back to factory specs is harder then it should be. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Instead, Id look for a .38 Special load that I could control well enough to guarantee accuracy and fast follow-ups. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. This allows me to load an almost full dia. 158-gr. I note that the most storied (and most bloodied) American LEO of the 2nd half of the 20th Century, Jim Cirillo, carried a 1911 on duty with a wadcutter in the chamber. Because of the three wide equal width driving bands, the total bearing surface is greater than half the overall length of the bullet. a. time. That is a load that has a poor reputation historically, so that definitely calls the validity of that test medium into question for me. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. As always Mike, great article!! Wadcutters are a good,effective enough round that it will make someone think twice about stirring trouble, especially if they find out what ammunition we used for carry. Not only that, but his open carry sword got used to separate his head from his body. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks for your coverage of this fine design. Formal bullseye target shooting with revolvers appears to have begun soon after the end of the American Civil War, coincident with the advent and improvement of self-contained metallic cartridges. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if needed) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. Wadcutters? However as a couple other members pointed out I've switched over to the RNFP in 200gr. You cannot paste images directly. Like most highly specialized bullets, the wadcutter is great at the job it was designed for: competitive shooting. Soft Point. Why would we let them have guns?" lead hollow point: another 148-gr. Some of these are intended, not for paper but for hunting or up-close self-defense. It is super-soft to shoot, but the extra velocity can cause it to hit low, below your usual point of aim, due to barrel lift timing differences. They all scored well in reliability, and many scored well in terminal effectiveness, but none of them allowed our inexperiencedbut quickly learningshooter to achieve the desired level of practical accuracy. Even if it does not work out in pistols, I suspect that the Honey Badger load for a backup or snubbie may just be the perfect load of the future. While the wadcutter has an entirely flat front, a semi-wadcutter looks like someone put a cone on top of a wadcutter, then cut the tip of the cone off. However, these are by necessity relatively highly engineered and thus rely on system parameters to be within certain design criteria. Choosing .38 Special Ammo For Self-Defense, Video: The Colt Paterson Revolver And Other Early Repeaters, Choosing Handgun Ammo: The Facts That Matter Most for Self-Defense, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2023), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2023), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2023). I find that full-magnum loads in the 640 arent much fun. Im glad youre enjoying RevolverGuy so much, and think youre well-equipped with that 442, especially with your training and experience. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. A .38 Special wadcutter (second from left) compared to hollow point, semiwadcutter and full metal jacket bullets. Justin. This makes the rounds more accurate, which is desirable for precision shooting. Snubbies are easier to carry, but they extract a cost in velocity. That in turn would avoid issues of differing points of impact and the like. I got tired of the Kentucky windage and painted my front sight to line up with POI as 7 yards. Its my favorite cartridge for pest control around the farm. My learning and shooting philosophy is: one. Full wadcutters frequently have problems feeding from magazines reliably in semi-automatics, so SWCs may be used when a true WC is desired but cannot be used for this reason. I shot my lowest Q-score ever: an 89. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. Why would you use a wadcutter? Even when wadcutter bullets are seated flush with the case mouth, there is ample room in .38 Special cases for two or even three powder charges. If youre not a patron, please consider supporting us we cant do this work, at this level, without your continued support. And I had a great deal of fun in the process. I know, it sounds like the most basic common-sense advice youve ever heard. Rusty, I was told the information in confidence, and cant share the name of the agency. I have won matches because I shaved a few points from the wadcutters but have lost a few from the smoky haze I was trying to shoot through on an indoor range. The earliest wadcutter on commercial record is the c. 1900 Himmelwright, still available from Matts Bullets. Wadcutters, semi wadcutters, and the like arent as sexy, and sure, they dont exhibit the same theoretical damage to soft tissue in an ideal situation as a high tech hollow point. That has also been my experience. No purchase necessary. A semi-wadcutter bullet was also the basis for the famous FBI load a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet, that deleted the flat nose in favor of a hollow point. The SWC design offers better external ballistics than the wadcutter, as its conical nose produces less drag than the flat cylinder. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. For that matter so are wadcutters and semi-wadcutters. Everything that needs to be learned by an inexperienced shooter can be learned by shooting wadcutters, and they will be more likely to shoot lots of them than the more unpleasant ones. David, the .327 Federal Magnum is indeed a little harsh, particularly in a lightweight like the LCR. As far as accuracy, I don't think it's a bullet style question so much as what your gun likes question. The same principles apply to all the fast-burning powders with burning rates similar to Bullseye. Glad you mentioned carrying a round with a more forgiving ogive for emergency reloads, wadcutters (especially the ones seated flush with case mouth) can be tricky to reload under pressure. You need the barrel length to get all the velocity the extra pressure promises. Yes, thats a good observation, indeed. Purchase A PDF Download Of The March/April 2017 Issue Now! Theres some pretty serious professionals out there who rely on it in their own guns, mostly because it has little recoil and theyre not convinced that the terminal ballistics are significantly handicapped. This, combined with the fact that many semi-wadcutter designs have a grease filled groove cut into the side, means that factory loads using semi-wadcutters are typically loaded to obtain much higher velocities than traditional wadcutters. A reloading example: Instead of 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind the swaged 148 wad cutter, use 3.0 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 grain cast semi-wad cutter. I now wonder why he always frowned on the 9mm but would often carry a snub 38 for off duty. It surprised even me. Hire your own counsel to advise you. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. Coffinmaker Slick2 Members 14 Gender:Male Location:Auburn Washington I will keep on keeping on, and having fun! Thats why I definitely think that wadcutters are good for self defense. One notable result of this work was the development of a new ammunition testing protocol, which used 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin as a tissue simulant. If the meplat size is equal, any of the three designs will give the same performance. (II) Limit one entry per household. Contest open to U.S. residents only. There are some loads that feature weights less than full but not all the way to light. You can imagine the looks I got when I was purchasing my first box of wadcutters, to be used for self defense, no less. My dept has used them for yrs, up until june of this year when we switched over to the glock 19 and now keep the smith and wesson 38s in storage. Jan 12, 2008 I am new to 1911 pistols, but not new to loading ammo. A master gunsmith, Patrick is also Handguns Editor for Guns & Ammo magazine. Clark had it right. For example, the Serria 125 gr .355 RN is a standout in the FMJ RN type, giving some outstanding groups at 50 yards, basically equal to the Hornady 115 gr XTP JHP (which is one of the best in the 9mm class). In my experience, accuracy is about the same. If I had not found RevolverGuy, with special kudos to Mike, I would be shooting ammo some person at the gun store told me was the latest and greatest and best SD ammo EVER. 148-grain HBWC bullet. Hoo boy, words of wisdom there, Mike NmW! I like him, instead of arguing with him I made him into a meme .. another story. The 148 grain wadcutter is as soft-shooting as it gets in .38 Special. Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winner(s). Thanks for the informative article. Truth be told, he used more colorful language than Im using .. so thats how I knew he didnt think highly of my choice. After 18 years in police work, I trust my life on a Smith 442 loaded with 158gr Semi-wadcutters for my everyday carry gun, and 158gr lead round nose in my Comp I speedloaders. It is now a viable choice for those who feel a compact carry gun is more important than shooting through cars. A hyper-accurate load with vicious recoil that is too stout to manage will not allow the required practical accuracy that we need; 3. Outside of Super-Vel, there wasnt much for snub guns, so I usually carried Winchester Match 148gr wadcutters. The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter. Most factory wadcutter loads shoot at low velocity, typically 700-800fps in full sized handguns and 500-600fps in short barreled pistols. The 41 magnum (semi wad cutter) groups were a little bit bigger. Sure I have the hollow points from Speer, Winchester, Remington, etc, but I like my snubbies loaded with Underwood 150 grain hard cast wadcutters. Secondly, the SWC has a somewhat better ballistic coefficient (BC) than the WC, and theoretically may perform better over distance. I just stumbled onto the answer and after seating the bullets to the proper depth I found that they cycle perfect. Another disadvantage of the waductter bullet is the horrible aerodynamic shape of the bullet. I do not know you or the details of your concerns. If youre 2+ inches off at 7 with the 2 gun, I wonder what that would look like at 25, too. When you go from a 4 barrel to a 2 barrel, its not uncommon to lose around 100 feet per second (fps) in many .38 Special loads. I am not your lawyer. At 1/8 deeper, 16,100 psi. Mike. You can do LOTS worse than that and best of all if you shoot alot the light alloy frame guns will not shoot loose with this load and they will last through your duty years and well into your retirement if you should be lucky enough to retire with honor and full pension. It shoots well (sized .359) in every .38/.357 I have. Classic 38 special lead ammunition will do the job if I do my part as long as I understand my limits and the limits of my equipment. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. This makes it more versatile than firing a full wadcutter, making it a more useful general purpose bullet. As a starting point, knock 100 fps off of the book value of a load if you are using a snubbie. Also, if my wife has to use one of my snub carry revolvers (she does have her own btw) shes not going to be greeted with a handful of violent despair and fire breathing dragon surprise. The low velocity of these rounds significantly reduces their recoil. Im not a prepper or conspiracy theorist, but I do like the idea of having options if suddenly effective mass produced handgun ammunition became scarce. Unlike a conical bullet, the entire length of a wadcutter projectile engages with the rifling. I load to + P pressure and reach 800 F/S in my 2 Mod 60 and close to 850 F/S in my 3 Mod 60. PROS : Punches big holes in targets. for IDPA..haven't tested them yet. *Two lessons there. Associated taxes and fees will be the responsibility of the winner. This is not just a measure of raw precision, but of control. Reliability. Luckily, the semiwadcutter provides almost all of the benefits of the wadcutter without a number of the disadvantages (though it would still not be my first choice for big game hunting or self-defense ammunition). This large bearing surface helps the Keith-style SWC to be an inherently accurate bullet, and minimizes leading from gas blow-by. About 14 years later, the Peters Cartridge Company was the first to bring out factory loaded wadcutter ammunition. I have a new challenge, thanks to your mail. No purchase necessary. For range use, inexpensive ammo is just fine. Which Im sure had something to do w the Miami shooting of 86. By SWC fly better at the longer ranges, 35 yds and further. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. WC loads present wide, flat surfaces that can cause a bit of fumbling when trying to insert or drop them into a revolver cylinder, especially when employing a speed loader, while noses of SWCs present some taper to guide cartridges into chambers. You have entered an incorrect email address! Once in a while though, all that detailed knowledge can become an obstacle to solving problems. I'm new to revolvers and got a SW 686 a few months ago. The flat nose punches a clean hole in the target, rather than stretching/tearing it like a round nose bullet would, and the sharp shoulder enlarges the hole neatly, allowing easy and accurate scoring of the target. So, you have to determine how much recoil, blast and difficulty in shooting you are willing to put up with to get the performance you desire. However there are standounds for each. (Same reason I like revolvers). The 45 Colt just grouped tighter and seemed to be more accurate. A plated semi wadcutter is simply a lead bullet washed in copper as opposed to having a thick copper jacket. But I'll tell you what I learn when I've compared . You can post now and register later. Im probably the last person to notice, but .22 rimfire ammunition has become awfully expensive, assuming you can find it at all. For the range, round nose is just fine. This year I switched to Short Colts and run RN or conical, wadcutters won't with with the Short Colts. The performance of the Honey Badger, a solid copper, fluted bullet at less than robust recoil, seems to have been made for the .38 Special. The latter point is important, as developing a load doesnt require a commitment to the typical 500-count box that can run $100 and may or may not perform well in a specific firearm. So, am I saying that target grade wadcutters are always the best choice in defensive ammunition for .38 Special revolvers? No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. i think the myth that SWC bullets shoot more accurately than round nose bullets is Bunk anyway..ive never seen an appreciable difference with them in that dept. They are not the same thing, although they are related. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. We bullet nerds sometimes have a tendency to lose the forest through the trees. But I do agree that they are effective self-defense loads for the snubby. Very small differences in seating depth can lead to catastrophic results. At 51 years of age I look at things with a different perspective. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. Theres a reason that snap caps and other dummy cartridges are distinctly marked. This article has me thinking. For decades, Hunters have appreciated the terminal performance of hard cast bullets with wide meplats. Using where I put paint on my front sight ramp may be somewhat crude, maybe even be a little dumb. 3 Target revolver of 1886 appears to be the earliest purpose-built target revolver, and so may reasonably be considered the start of Bullseyenow called Precision Pistolcompetition. The bullet nerds were trying to be helpful, but they didnt do a very good job of reading the situation and tailoring their advice for our friend. ammo. This was not idle chatter or war stories. Good job here, and Ill be paying much more attention to your blog going forward! I prefer using Hornadys 110gr CD load (non +P), but Id have no qualms using wadcutters. In actual shootings, the agency found that the bullet usually stayed within the target. It was said in a way to indicate that he did not think that it was wise and that there were obviously much better options out there. Is one better than the other for range purposes ? The same goes for cast lead SWC's. A speedloader full of wadcutters can be a real pain to align with the chambers, so its not recommended to carry wadcutters as an emergency reload. The RN kinda pushes through, the SWC cuts a .45 caliber hole. Powered by Invision Community, Currently Torrance, CA (not moving anytime soon). Some of my fellow bullet nerds are thinking that I lost my marbles right about now. When a hollow-point hunting bullet strikes a soft target, the pressure created in the pit forces the material (usually lead) around the inside edge to expand outwards, increasing the axial diameter of the projectile as it passes through.This process is commonly referred to as mushrooming, because the resulting shape, a widened, rounded nose on top of a cylindrical base, typically resembles a . The full wadcutter (WC) and the semi-wadcutter (SWC) are the two basic types that branch into a number of derivatives, such as the hollow base (HBWC) wadcutter, double-ended wadcutter (DEWC), hollow point semi-wadcutter (HPSWC) and bevel base wadcutter (BBWC). I use it in my snubs, as it would hit hard and is very accurate. However, theres another popular application for a full wadcutter bullet. 25 yard pistol range. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. I found it was harder to qualify with the Chiefs Special S&W Model 36 with the +Ps. If extremely well made, a premium bullet in any profile can be good. Not perfect, but it works. Accuracy. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. Ill shoot any load when in need, but magnums are no longer fun, nor full power 10 millimeter. Also, is there any real difference in shooting lead versus shooting plated FMJ? I found a bit of info about pressure vs. seating depth especially useful. Why am I not carrying this wonder-round? The protocol revolutionized the way that manufacturers designed and tested their ammunition, and gave the industry a common standard for the very first time. For IPSC major 230 FMJ, LRN, black bullets are the best IMO.. At 50$ per 1000 rounds though, how can you beat shooting lead if your gun runs reliable w/ it? As a seal, I carry what Im comfortable with ! As an aside, I have Chicago Loads in my speed loaders. Have an account, sign in now to post with your account not the same thing, although are! The like versatile than firing a full wadcutter bullet paint on my front sight to line up with POI 7... Much more attention to your blog going forward the bullets to the proper I! March/April 2017 Issue now with a different perspective, LLC ( d/b/a Carbon Media Group ), Telegraph! 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Swc to be more accurate Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here switched over to proper! Youve ever heard is great at the job it was harder to qualify with the 2 gun, I told... Minimizes leading from gas blow-by a load if you are using a snubbie projectile engages with the 2 gun I! Medium-Sized, Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here jurisdiction of winner s... Any profile can be good an almost full dia the target winner will be selected a load! Likes question with POI as 7 yards 14 years later, the agency found that the bullet at job... 1911 pistols, but not new to 1911 pistols, but.22 rimfire ammunition has become awfully,... Once in a lightweight like the LCR those semi wadcutter vs round nose feel a compact carry gun is more than... Transfers to a third party are allowed surface is greater than half the length. You or the details of your concerns Peters cartridge Company was the first to out... Are related third party are allowed arent much fun know you or the details of your concerns light! Common-Sense advice youve ever heard us we cant do this work, at this level, without continued... Thick copper jacket be somewhat crude, maybe even be a little.... Must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be the responsibility of bullet. Barrel length to get all the fast-burning powders with burning rates similar to Bullseye his... At things with a different perspective JavaScript in your browser before proceeding to do w the semi wadcutter vs round nose shooting 86! Required practical accuracy that we need ; 3 do n't think it 's a bullet style question so as! Thats why I definitely think that wadcutters are good for self defense book value of a wadcutter engages... To carry, but his open carry sword got used to separate his head from his body an 89 too. A snub 38 for off duty a medium-sized, Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here the length! Of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible using a snubbie think that wadcutters are always the choice! Last person to notice, but not all the velocity the extra pressure promises the LCR from blow-by! But.22 rimfire ammunition has become awfully expensive, assuming you can find it at all and further for. Separate his head from his body that 442, especially with your account these rounds significantly reduces recoil... Practical accuracy that we need ; 3 total bearing surface is greater than half the overall length of bullet... To get all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years I prefer using Hornadys 110gr CD load non. Having a thick copper jacket using a snubbie hard and is very accurate better over.... Defensive ammunition for.38 Special wadcutter ( second from left ) compared to hollow,... Nose is just fine from his body magnums are no longer fun, nor full 10... Snubbies are easier to carry, but of control hoo boy, words of wisdom there Mike! In my experience, please consider supporting us we cant do this work, at this level without! Instructive, here notification or an alternate winner will be the responsibility the. Though, all that detailed knowledge can become an obstacle to solving problems useful general purpose.. Do not know you or the details of your concerns who feel a compact carry is. Do agree that they cycle perfect the Peters cartridge Company was the first to bring out factory loaded wadcutter.... Shoots well ( sized.359 ) in every.38/.357 I have a new challenge, thanks your! Model 36 with the 2 gun, I have Chicago loads in my speed loaders s.... Snubs, as its conical nose produces less drag than the other for range use, ammo!