Games Workshop wont disappear. I love the crocodile tears about the indie companies. Youre a thief. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. Whats the actual law being broken when trading for a recast model? If you order anything that is not titan sized you get all the same issues the recasts have. It is wrong but it is also stupid. How can anyone claim the second company is not greedy, and yes the second company gets targeted by pirates and the first doesnt. The models they had to sculpt digitally and then cast in a way they would both fit in the box, and be easy to mass produce. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. If that was to happen then there is a chance of changing something. Manufacturer SCALE 75 minis, have put their foot down and advocated an anti-piracy message into the hobby world. Even so, I think this issue began with Chinese copies of Forgeworld references. And dont forget about the spacedwarfs aka squats. Copyright 2009-2023. They were producing beautiful miniatures (crazy complicated game) but they were cut the margins too thinly. We pay for quality in finishes and materials, and the most important ofall: Recasting is a side effect of greedy companies or individuals that take hobby members for granted. GW has serious plastic and great details, FW does not. I have no remorse whatsoever for GW. OK, rightful, dont buy it, but if you buy from a recast is like steal the model. From the beginning thought of a new model in their head to putting it on paper, and into real life. This also amounts to stealing somebody elses work. Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. Many RPG fans turn a blind eye to PDFs from defunct publishers, but studiously pay for legitimate PDFs from current publishers seeing the former as preserving the history of the hobby. As in Id pay the IP holder for this if a legit copy was available, but since the company is gone/author is dead/etc. The above article is, quite frankly, scaremongering. produce in the country you sell in and not in china.. then we can talk until then you get what you deserve! You aren't allowed to use recasts in a GW store, for one (though depending on the quality, people might not notice). You guys do a great job on this site/blog. You can call people that buy recasts thieves I hope you enjoy your elitist hobby with the few people that can afford to play it. The elitism of GW is a prime example; They go so far as not allowing official models in their store tourneys, even when a reasonable counts-as. Spikey Bits is a site about the hobby of tabletop wargaming. Especially when taken out of context or without a clue of whats going on here Sure there are Chinese recasters, unfortunately I hate to break it to you, but all of the biggest and well known recasts world wide produced here are made by westerners Bummer. Games workshop has an extremely bad ethic towards its pricing, I saw a comparison of two kits, with a near identical amount of plastic used for the construction and both were released in the same time frame and likely designed side by side. Shall I summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails, milord? Really you are the idiots here supporting such a corporation. Judge yourselves. See yourself for historical games, for the Warlord Games company. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. I do not buy such copies for moral reasons, but I will not buy original figurines. I dont agree with that it is stealing, its models I would never buy anyway. Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. If you plan on punishing players (and I mean PUNISH them) when you compare what you offer for what other reasonable vendors offer, you find re-castes are a result of your own actions. Is it okay to create my own miniatures if they are not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on? Virginia Restless, Miniature Painter & Cat Dad. during the month, more than 5 times the quantity that me (the creator, designer and fighter) sold the same month. They take all the financial risk to give a miniature its origin, why shouldnt they be entitled to make an honest living? I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. They should be 30% of that and maybe nobody would copy that. Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few! Tripling the quarterly profits isnt exactly telling me that they are covering costs and slowly expanding. But imo GW are flogging its customers for all its worth while things are good. Whats the actual law being broken when purchasing a recast? FWs resin is also crap and brittle, not sure what your point is there. You will create reports for the business to be discussed at monthly infringement meetings. But Netflix absorbed a lot of people, including the extremely low population of pirates, who just wanted a reasonable price for what they wanted. Detail is not lost when buying from larger recasters. the books are out there the rules are out there, it would be like if Monopoly was suddenly no longer made every one knows the rules and can build their own board quit being GW fan boys they dont give a shit about you. As expected, the pieces to assemble are the same as the original. Back to the content 'Desu Korps of Kreig'. GW going out of business would be the best thing in the world for the hobby. P.O. Now it raise an other thing literally pissing me off if I may, due to that misinformation, we legit hobbyist/painters in China are also punished with blatant racism by most of the European brands (especially those from Spainsorry guys). I bet you steal music and movies. Their miniatures are good-quality. We pay so that the company we like so much is able to surpriseus again in the future with yet another piece to continue enjoying our hobby. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. Not me. I have also had some which are close if not flawless. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. No? I totally understand how the purchasing of recasts of existing stock is hurting miniature companies, but what do you think about the recasting of long out of production (10 years plus) miniatures? You are completely right about this. Their heart is closer to their craft, and I could not justify owning their product while paying someone else for it. I havent bought any GW recasts yet but I support it because if it eventually hurts GW enough that they reevaluate their business practices and lower their prices, that will bring more people into the hobby and overall gaming will be better. GW rant incoming: I agree with buying recasts only when it is GW. Instead of looking into the business that are in the climate (and possibly are the reason for the climate being the way it is) we try to cancel culture those in the hobby. Not because GW has a better product, but because GW will sue the crap out of anyone who makes a model that looks similar to a GW model. a 6th edition metal dwarf throne of powers market price on ebay is now around 160, thats way beyond the reach of most hobbyists, definitely out of the reach of kids. This had to be done because it was nearly impossible to identify many of the pieces that came attached to large blobs of resin. If I had to choose between paying my electricity bill or having a dread saurian , its crystal clear. People who use recast try to paint GW as the bad guy and the others that protect GW dont want to have a conversation or rationalize their thoughts. I say choose wisely and ALWAYS go with the origin of the art if possible. are doing this with the intention to create a well costed, and quality product. Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. You stole it. Horus Heresy Adds a New Librarian Consul Model! Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. I have no problem doing a massive company like GW out of 40 quid. Someone mentioned looked at Rackham games as if recasts are why they went out of business. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. So recast companies will push this margin further and further. You have entered an incorrect email address! See our, and recently hired an infringements assistant. It leaves you a very salty taste. #22 to #20 - manollette . Its inevitable anyways in the next 5 years with 3D printing. I need some of the bigger suits for my tau and they are pretty expensive so I would most likely turn to a recast. Box 2225Southern Pines, NC 28387United States of America. Age of Sigmar is more popular than WFB was. Thank you for your inputs Rusty! They tried to go public to get quick capitol and ended up eating it. Things like Kodi make it seem harmless oh you clicked a few buttons and bingo it is there without any effort, so it must be harmless. GWs greed and extortionate prices. The more people there are who are anticipating the reveal of new stuff are there because there is an established community and it only gets better the bigger the community is. These companies do not pay any IP rights. Tbh I wish there was a quality metal recaster of late 90s early 2000s WFB, or that gw would just sell the moulds/ip so I could get the models I want. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. We arent saying you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you can use in your tabletop games. You have not idea about, a totally ignorant. even once all my returns have been replaced by forgeworld the model is still of a lower quality than the recast. What do you think of the latest Warhammer recaster to get shut down by Games Workshop ? An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Their prices are so small that nobody in the world could copy their figurines. The other aspect is quality of product, I know a lot of LoTR players would rather buy metal recasts from ebay rather than finecast versions of originally metal models from gw (basically all the elite troops were switched from metal to finecast when finecast first came out, so its not even the improved finecast). They tried to grow way too fast and their main game had waaay to many units and thus huge costs to cover it. We just make claims. DVD prices havent gone down. OUR EXISTENCE IS IN DANGER! However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry behind this hobby of ours. e.g. . Enjoy the hobby, dislike the business practices. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Its nice to see such mature topics being treated with depth. Yes. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Youre not automatically entitled to them. The cheap cost of resin you mention would only be associated with recasters. Ive loved games workshops products for over 20 years now but im finding it harder and harder to justify spending so much on their productsespecially after they tried so hard to stop us here in australia finding cheaper prices overseas, ill continue to support gw by buying genuine products but im not going to pay the crazy prices they want is to pay here. I have a motto I live by it.regarding others if you lie,you can cheat,cheat you can steal, steal you can.lets just say theres many cases of some folks needing something bad ,dont have the money and try and steal for itthings escalate and then murder becomes involved. Suffer in the worst way possible. This also isnt the first time Games Workshop has gone after recasters in China or otherwise, and recently hired an infringements assistant or, in military terms, a targeter to help with the task: Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop from risk through removing infringing and counterfeit products, ensuring that our customers can continue to enjoy our products for years to come? Sorry, I do not. The recasts I buy are better quality and for what I would 80 quid for from forge world I can buy from China for 20 dollars including delivery. Theyre entitled to make a profit sure and Im entitled to shop around. All of my recasts are better quality that forgeworkd or other manufacturers. Recommended Products For The Miniatures Hobby! It is our mission to bring you the latest from the miniature wargaming scene, from narrative missions, hobby how-to tutorials, battle reports, unboxings and reviews, retro flashbacks, news, rumors, and more. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. Illegal sellers proliferate on second-hand portals, ebay, e-mail contacts and even mobile aplications for peer to peer trading. 256. r/Warhammer40k. Despite asking them to send me the fake Venator model, they sent me the normal fake Tauros model, a shorter version than the one I requested. Plain and simple. Prices go up. I look forward to you trying that defence in court. I just bought Dreadnought with 2 sets of weapons and I paid > 100 EUR. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. The analogies used are baseless. I wouldnt take a recast even if someone gives it to me for free. I dont buy recasts, and I dont buy from companies that charge more than I think is reasonable. As Alchemy said, they drive more new hobbyists away by doing it in this and inevitably lose out of profit in the long run. I would say though that what you talk about is a different topic to what we are discussing in this post. You stole the profits from a miniature company that puts food on their table, heats their homes, takes their kids to sports events/cinema (more on this in a min)/etc. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_9',634,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');Mix Your Paint In Seconds! I have to necro a bit here. I wonder If anybody writing that ever have ever hold Forge World model. Game workshops prophit have been that big that instead of making their models cheaper for their customers they gave their staff a 2 thousand pounds bonus ( tax purposes) so boo hoo if the greedy fuckers are losing in the grand scale of things pocket change. Case in point: One miniature, slightly more detailed than a normal marine: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Games-Workshop-Warhammer-40k-Space-Marine-Commander/107298737?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1239&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42423897272&wl4=pla-51320962143&wl5=1019313&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113137378&wl11=online&wl12=107298737&wl13=&veh=sem Whos being the thief? This sort of effect makes even more sense in model games, particularly WH. As it goes for GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets are not so expensive. Theyre decent sculpts, decent quality minis. Recasters are selling multitudes of more models than the actual creator. Cheers. All rights reserved. The surfaces are very rough, have lots of pores and bubbles, there are important burr steps or details covered by extra resin. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Ill just download the PDF for free. Adding on to what Shane Rozzell have said and more direct. They should suffer! Ah yes, Im so sorry messer, I apologize that the serfs are becoming so uppity as to assume that they might be able to afford some enjoyment in their pitiful lives. [] a subject which rears its head quite regularly. 2K. Let explain with the simple aim of making you understand it the true depth of your act. You arent using a recaster, he is using you. So the person being greedy here is you. Spikey Bits is a registered trademark of Purple Elephants. Because there truly is no real money in the miniatures business. Now lets say in this situation I have a friend who plays WH and hes a recaster, and he can get me that same army for $50. They are bentor folded, transparent and rough surfaced. We are actually preparing another post about that specific issue you are mentioning because that is a topic that will also lead to a huge discussion! If you say because of the recent boom of recasting being available you would expect GW to be affected in some way? However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . Wholesome Memes Aww Anime & Manga Video Games Memes GIFs . I dont want to be pointing finger, but we cannot choose to ignore part of IP basic principles, and focus on some others. And I do not buy the excuse hey, this is an expensive hobby. Another person trying to justify theft plain and simple if you dont like the prices dont play the game there are plenty of other great options out there at the moment. Wait how is this killing the hobby ? Just out of curiosity, what about recasts of long out of print miniatures, or miniatures from defunct companies? Maybe it will work for them but I think they are pushing away many potential newcomers to the hobby which is the future. Quality and durability is a real issue with their resin, Ive had several LoTR finecast models break on me while gaming far too easily, usually on fine detail or blades thats near impossible to effectively fix. A lot of resin has to be removed, rectified and even replaced with putty. GW also has a massive network of stores. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. Appealing to modelers if futile in my opinion, there is not enough power in that argument to change buying habits. But what about the giant press they had to design and manufacture. After that no surprise if some brands get copied in the first place, that kind of behavior and answer has no place in a world where international trades are a thing. Salaries of their employees are probably atrociousand, above all, they undermine the business of proper companies endangering their countinuity. Recasts and piracy, in general, is suddenly on the rise across the hobby as a whole, as other manufacturers and independent artists are also starting to take a hit. There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). Just saying, this argument is fail. Games workshop not only wants lots of money for its live figures (5 euros for guardsman from krieg !, more than for metal ones!). There was a demand so the pirates appeared they sell cheaper and often better quality. Finecast is so good, I really dont understand recast buyers ! Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. (and here I come back the argument) its the small independent places that can no longer get the movies into big cinema chains because they wont bring in the numbers to cover the costs. CCoN has lower inventory variety and higher cost, but he's cheapest when he has a sale and it's really good quality. The arguments here are simple white knighting and emotional, there is no one actually willing to discuss anything or addressing recasting. Soon they will be 3D scanning and 3D printing and mass producing making more profit. Thats the total cost for them, packaging, payroll, the lot. I myself am very pro recast, that being said maybe 5-10% of my models are recast. But there is a thing Id wish to point out, its the Chinese stigmatisation I am french living in China for about ten years now, and Chinese bashing is just a constant thing I hear from most of westerners and is absolutely not right either. Personally I would like to see new players pick it up and have the hobby flourish. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for "Forge World" than last week at this time. Warhammer fantasy was half my life and then they did this to me.. fuck them. Shortcuts: "C" opens comments. Join. GW copycat ideas from sourses like Terminator,Alien, Dungeons and Dragons and what not. When Games Workshop uses ONLY domestic materials and employees, thats when Ill stop augmenting my official purchases with personal recasts. My only experience with recasts were a set of transparent Tau stealth suits which, while everyone agreed were really cool, I was told not to use them. Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. And thats what will happen if recasts become a thing. That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . Bollocks. @Greg smith : Everyone before me has already said what is correct. Ok fair enough, our companies are small and action costs. That is the price ofany original model. You stole the rights to that model. Its about supporting companies that support your interests by creating models and figures you enjoy. In the case of this piece, originally from Forgeworld, I had a small problem with the recasters. Mainly because it is ILLEGAL. Or rather, do they produce miniatures with base polystyrene produced in highly toxic factories in China and Vietnam? @Greg. A movement has started to help raise awareness about the loss of income these folks have started to experience recently. As you see, this is nightmarish no matter how you look at it. Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. Its very easy to make an illegal copy of a miniature, especially if the country where its made has bad labour policies. You retard, that was already included in the measurement. Nice article, only preaching to converted. A model is too expensive in your opinion and dont worth the money? When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. Squats went 20 years ago because no one was buying them. is it going to cause the game to completely vanish if the company were to shut down ? What about sculptors that, due to their skill got pay really good money, what about shopfloor operatives, what about other staff, customer service bills etc. They stole the right to complain about re-castes when they demand unreasonable prices, and thus stealing the joy of the hobby. For a better comparison, I have cleaned all the copies of excess resin and plastic. Too draconian prices. I blame LEGOs. Umm. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. Thanks for the guys who give chance for better value and access to minis that I will never otherwice will be able to buy. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/. A check of their website shows that it is indeed down, and from the looks of it not coming back. Youre obviously not using a good recaster, also you havent mentioned the cheap cost of resin and how much profit is made on resin models. Lets look at Netflix, people didnt think streaming would have as big of an effect as it did as before that everyone blamed everything on pirating. Recast companies will be making more profit than the small indies as they dont have any other costs. And its not more acceptable if its one of your friends or idols who did it (remember a particular space wolf bust?). You are stealing. Imo it tells me that they severely overprice their products for maximum GP. I will always buy the original product when I can, but Im also going to buy high quality recasts for models that I need multiples of. New 40k, AoS, & More: GWs Release Preview LATEST, Orks & Christmas Bundle White Dwarf November 2018. After games workshops 150 million EXTRA prophit in 2018 Im not sure that recasting is harming the hobby in the slightest. Let us know in the comments of ourFacebook Hobby Group,and make sure youenter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! No it is killing the cinema. I totally understand the problem with stolen IP and that the problem must be addressed, but I would also say that in regards to out of production miniatures that in economic terms GW are not providing what the market wants, so the market is finding alternative ways to provide it, unfortunately these arent legal, but on the other hand this is an avoidable situation for GW. Look at Rackham from 10 years ago. As much as I loved the action parts of the 10th edition cinematic, Guilliman's speech was an underrated highlight that goes harder than some might not have realized because it constantly cuts between his speech and badass action. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. 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